When The Beatles Met Elvis

[Mojo Filter]

"a direct lift of Don't Be Cruel"...that's a new one. Another one to be added to ever expanding list of songs that "The Ballard Of John and Yoko" is supposed to be stolen from and That's All Right Mama, too.

[TonyS]

[Hard Rocker]

Thanks Tony. You'd need to be deaf not to notice the similarity between the bass line of TBAJAY and the guitar riff of Dont Be Cruel.

Lennon was hugely influenced by Elvis. It's also well known that The Beatles were not shy about lifting from other artists.

Which of Lennon's solo hits "reminds you" (Ahem!) of this old traditional tune? You'll figure it out in under 20 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXdQB-mR4tg

Plenty more where that came from.

[Mojo Filter]

now that's funny!

The attempt to connect the two Elvis songs is a bit laughable. There's just no similarities there. Tempo, melody, structure of the songs are completely different. Particularly on "Don't Be Cruel" it's just nowhere near it.

Of course "every" artist takes their inspirations from somewhere every now and then but in this case I think the case isn't strong.

[TonyS]

I certainly hear similarities.

[Hard Rocker]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. As mentioned, you'd need to be deaf not to hear it.

On a similar note (pun fully intended), McCartney admitted "Here’s one example of a bit I pinched from someone: I used the bass riff from 'Talkin' About You' by Chuck Berry in 'I Saw Her Standing There'. I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly."

"Exactly the same notes." "Pinched."

[TonyS]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. As mentioned, you'd need to be deaf not to hear it.

On a similar note (pun fully intended), McCartney admitted "Here’s one example of a bit I pinched from someone: I used the bass riff from 'Talkin' About You' by Chuck Berry in 'I Saw Her Standing There'. I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly."

"Exactly the same notes." "Pinched."

I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly. Even now, when I tell people about it, I find few of them believe me. Therefore I maintain that a bass riff doesn’t have to be original.

(Paul McCartney, Many Years From Now, Barry Miles)

It's no big deal to me, but to some Beatles fans it hurts to admit that their heroes did just what others do.
For the record, I'm a Beatles fan and 'Seventeen' is one of my faves.

[Mojo Filter]

It's as plain as the nose on your face. As mentioned, you'd need to be deaf not to hear it.

On a similar note (pun fully intended), McCartney admitted "Here’s one example of a bit I pinched from someone: I used the bass riff from 'Talkin' About You' by Chuck Berry in 'I Saw Her Standing There'. I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly."

"Exactly the same notes." "Pinched."

I played exactly the same notes as he did and it fitted our number perfectly. Even now, when I tell people about it, I find few of them believe me. Therefore I maintain that a bass riff doesn’t have to be original.

(Paul McCartney, Many Years From Now, Barry Miles)

It's no big deal to me, but to some Beatles fans it hurts to admit that their heroes did just what others do.
For the record, I'm a Beatles fan and 'Seventeen' is one of my faves.

It's no big deal to me either. But I do like facts and it's nothing to do with my heroes taking what others to because they do it but it doesn't bother me. Sadly, McCartney does tend to talk out of his arse at times for whatever reason(s). Being a guitar player myself I know that "I Saw Her Standing There" and "I'm talking about you" have no similarities because one is in the key of E and the other is in C so therefore McCartney can not be playing the exact same notes. Why he's said that is a bit weird.

PS: I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

[TonyS]

....I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

I can go with that, me neither.
What if you change the key, would they be the same notes?
The reason I ask, is again I can hear a similarity.

[STEVE MORSE]

Being a guitar player myself I know that "I Saw Her Standing There" and "I'm talking about you" have no similarities because one is in the key of E and the other is in C so therefore McCartney can not be playing the exact same notes. Why he's said that is a bit weird.

PS: I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

Surely the key is irrelevant if the rhythm and melody are the same. I play piano.

I don't know "I'm talking about you", by the way.

[John]

Being a guitar player myself I know that "I Saw Her Standing There" and "I'm talking about you" have no similarities because one is in the key of E and the other is in C so therefore McCartney can not be playing the exact same notes. Why he's said that is a bit weird.

PS: I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

Surely the key is irrelevant if the rhythm and melody are the same. I play piano.

I don't know "I'm talking about you", by the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2i8Z-c35y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxwAB3SECtc

[John]

Being a guitar player myself I know that "I Saw Her Standing There" and "I'm talking about you" have no similarities because one is in the key of E and the other is in C so therefore McCartney can not be playing the exact same notes. Why he's said that is a bit weird.

PS: I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

Surely the key is irrelevant if the rhythm and melody are the same. I play piano.

No. They'd have to play different notes to suit the key. Even if you transpose one of them, the two songs have a different chord structure, so they might play some of the same notes in parts of the song, but not all the way through.

I've brought I Saw Her Standing There down to C while keeping the same tempo as the original.

[Mojo Filter]

....I'm not trying to have an argument with anyone or being a smart ass because that's not my intention. I'm just speaking from what I know or learnt.

I can go with that, me neither.
What if you change the key, would they be the same notes?
The reason I ask, is again I can hear a similarity.

If you change the key of a song you are basically changing the notes, but you can play some of the same notes (they might be an octave higher or lower in some cases) in places but not all the way through, as John as just told Steve Morse.

But if you are covering a particular song the key can be changed to suit your interpretation of the song or to suit your vocal range if it's the same song. Eg: Bill Monroes "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" original is in the key of C in Elvis' hands it's changed to the key of A to suit his range, Bill's voice is higher in range than Elvis' so therefore Elvis is singing different notes although the melody is still the same but sang in a lower key.

But you can't change the key to two completely different songs as in this case "I'm Talking About You" and "I Saw Her Standing There". So McCartney saying he's playing the exact same notes in his song from a Berry song is bizarre because they are so different when they are completely different.

Songwriters and musicians do get inspirations from other songs, be it notes or words but they usually change it so it doesn't sound too noticeable for obvious reasons because they can get sued (ask Sam Phillips he knows all about being sued, Bear Cat. Lol).

[Hard Rocker]

I'll try to explain.

1) The Ballad of John & Yoko is played in E.

2) Dont Be Cruel is played in D.

3) The signature riff in both contains a 5 note run.

4) However the "intervals" (ie the number of tones/semi-tones between each note) in these riffs are identical.

It's either a rip-off or an extra-ordinary coincidence. Given The Beatles penchant for nicking things left, right, and centre, for me they lose the benefit of the doubt. And particularly so given their idolatry of early Elvis.

People can choose to accept this or not. However what's not up for debate is the compelling evidence that the intervals are identical. The riffs are IDENTICAL, albeit Don't Be Cruel is played in D and TBOJAY is played in E.

[Hard Rocker]

I've brought I Saw Her Standing There down to C while keeping the same tempo as the original.

John, if you fancy it....

Learn the bass riff to TBOJAY in E.
Stick a capo on at the 10th fret.
Play the same thing there.

Voila! The guitar riff to Don't Be Cruel.

Identical.

Or....

To play it the way Scotty played it, you'd need to retune the guitar by dropping the E down to a D (and also re-tune the other 5 strings) and play it there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAwE6Neo2QU&t=353s
Look there at 33:46

You'll then find that when you retune your guitar and play it in to E (standard concert tuning), it's the bass riff from TBOJAY, albeit an octave higher. Identical!